User talk:Beyond My Ken

‎Category:Church of the Immaculate Conception and Clergy Houses: re
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Revision as of 13:51, 22 March 2013
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Hi Beyond My Ken, you asked [http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Church_of_the_Immaculate_Conception_and_Clergy_Houses&diff=93037838&oldid=93002455 Why]? It is quite simple: None of the media in [[:Category:Church of the Immaculate Conception and Clergy Houses]] shows any work by [[:en:Clayton and Bell|Clayton and Bell]], hence it is not helpful to put this into the category of [[:Category:Clayton and Bell]]. Categories of stained glass manufacturers are expected to hold pictures of stained glass windows created by the respective firm or other materials related to that firm. But the mere connection that a church has some stained glass windows by a particular firm is no justification to move the church's category into the firm's category. Whenever images of these stained glass windows of that church created by that firm get uploaded, they can and should be added to the firm's category. Regards, [[User:AFBorchert|AFBorchert]] ([[User talk:AFBorchert|talk]]) 12:04, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 
Hi Beyond My Ken, you asked [http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Church_of_the_Immaculate_Conception_and_Clergy_Houses&diff=93037838&oldid=93002455 Why]? It is quite simple: None of the media in [[:Category:Church of the Immaculate Conception and Clergy Houses]] shows any work by [[:en:Clayton and Bell|Clayton and Bell]], hence it is not helpful to put this into the category of [[:Category:Clayton and Bell]]. Categories of stained glass manufacturers are expected to hold pictures of stained glass windows created by the respective firm or other materials related to that firm. But the mere connection that a church has some stained glass windows by a particular firm is no justification to move the church's category into the firm's category. Whenever images of these stained glass windows of that church created by that firm get uploaded, they can and should be added to the firm's category. Regards, [[User:AFBorchert|AFBorchert]] ([[User talk:AFBorchert|talk]]) 12:04, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 
:Sorry, I disagree with that rationale. Since it's documented that the church does have windows by them, and they are mentioned in the description. People coming to the cat will see that there are no images of the windows, which will, one would hope, provoke them to find images. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken#top|talk]]) 13:08, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 
:Sorry, I disagree with that rationale. Since it's documented that the church does have windows by them, and they are mentioned in the description. People coming to the cat will see that there are no images of the windows, which will, one would hope, provoke them to find images. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken#top|talk]]) 13:08, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 
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::You have already documented in the description that some of the stained glass windows are from Clayton and Bell. This is helpful and helps to find possible manufacturers of stained glass pictures of that church. But the category system does not serve to create work lists including those sites where we do not have any images yet. Instead, work lists are to be put into the articles, like [[:en:Clayton and Bell#Buildings with Clayton and Bell Windows|here]] where this particular church is still missing. The church as sub-category is pretty misleading as we would find images of a church sorted under Clayton and Bell which have no relationship to it. This would also create an overcategorization in the moment when a stained glass window of that church is added and put into the correct category of Clayton and Bell. If we would instead follow your approach, we could next make categories of villages sub-categories of a manufacturer or artist because somewhere in that village a church is to be found which has hopefully a stained glass window of that firm in the hope that someone is going to photograph it. All this violates the [[Commons:Categories#Category structure in Wikimedia Commons|principle]] that categories should reflect hierarchies of concepts. The category system supports the creator/work relation but there is no such relation between Clayton & Bell and the church. There is one between Clayton & Bell and the individual stained glass windows they have created. Regards, [[User:AFBorchert|AFBorchert]] ([[User talk:AFBorchert|talk]]) 13:51, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

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