Commons:Deletion requests/File:Double ended Weston Road.jpg

‎File:Double ended Weston Road.jpg: copyedit my comment and add forgotten signature
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Revision as of 17:11, 23 March 2013
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: While we know most of our historical images come from archives, this image states that it is ''"copyright Joseph Testagrose"''. Unlike Salmon Testagrose was not from the GTA -- he seems to have been a prolific American collector of railway images. Did Testagrose take this image while visiting Toronto? Maybe. It also possible that he purchased this image, and its intellectual property rights, from an unknown Canadian photographer -- explaining the copyright notice. It also possible that he purchased this image from an unknown Canadian photographer, without realizing that the original copyright holder would have had to separately sell the IP rights to him before he could watermark them with a copyright claim. Even if he purchased the IP rights, Testagrose would still need to have renewed the copyright at the 28 year mark.
 
: While we know most of our historical images come from archives, this image states that it is ''"copyright Joseph Testagrose"''. Unlike Salmon Testagrose was not from the GTA -- he seems to have been a prolific American collector of railway images. Did Testagrose take this image while visiting Toronto? Maybe. It also possible that he purchased this image, and its intellectual property rights, from an unknown Canadian photographer -- explaining the copyright notice. It also possible that he purchased this image from an unknown Canadian photographer, without realizing that the original copyright holder would have had to separately sell the IP rights to him before he could watermark them with a copyright claim. Even if he purchased the IP rights, Testagrose would still need to have renewed the copyright at the 28 year mark.
 
: I wrote to one of the webmasters who explicitly thanked Testagrose on his site. He implied he had been in contact with Testagrose. Perhaps he can shed some light on this. [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 16:07, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 
: I wrote to one of the webmasters who explicitly thanked Testagrose on his site. He implied he had been in contact with Testagrose. Perhaps he can shed some light on this. [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 16:07, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
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:::Renewal of copyright is only relevant to U.S. images or images published in the U.S. less than 30 days after publication abroad. It isn't a relevant consideration for Canadian images.

Even with American works, one needs proof of publication. So even if we argued that this Testagrose image should be treated as a U.S. image, we need to either demonstrate that it was published (and not published first in Canada more than 30 days before publication in the U.S.), or the copyright term is the life of the author + 70 years. Like many of these historic shots in archival or personal collections, they were likely never published.

As for the Salmon images, the copyright period for pre-1949 Canadian photographs runs from the date of ''creation'', not the date of the photographer's death. If that particular Salmon image was from 1949 or later, the copyright in Canadawould have expired as you said in 2008, but not in the U.S.. In the U.S., copyright of that foreign image would run for 95 years after publication date (or 70 years after the death of the photographer if unpublished) unless the image was PD in Canada prior to January 1, 1996 (the URAA date in Canada). Whether Salmon's heirs renewed copyright is irrelevant for a non-U.S. image.

As for OTRS, if you got confirmation from the TPL and/or COTA that images for which they hold or held the copyright are considered by them to be public domain ''worldwide'' once they are public domain in Canada, then I would give you a massive hug!!! Similar cofirmation was obtained from the U.K. copyright office for British images subject to the 50-year crown copyright rule in the U.K. It would be wonderful if we could get something similar for Toronto images. Contact me if you wish to discuss.
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:::Renewal of copyright is only relevant to U.S. images or images published in the U.S. less than 30 days after publication abroad. It isn't a relevant consideration for Canadian images.

Even with American works subject to the renewal consideration, one needs proof of publication during the period that copyright renewal was an issue (before 1964 IIRC). So even if we argued that this Testagrose image should be treated as a U.S. image, we need to either demonstrate that it was published in the U.S. (and not published first in Canada more than 30 days before publication in the U.S.), or the copyright term is the life of the author + 70 years. Like many of these historic shots in archival or personal collections, they were likely not published until they were made available on the internet.

As for the Salmon images, the copyright period for pre-1949 Canadian photographs runs from the date of ''creation'', not the date of the photographer's death. If that particular Salmon image was from 1949 or later, the copyright in Canadawould have expired as you said in 2008, but not in the U.S.. In the U.S., copyright of that foreign image would run for 95 years after publication date (or 70 years after the death of the photographer if unpublished) unless the image was PD in Canada prior to January 1, 1996 (the URAA date in Canada). Whether Salmon's heirs renewed copyright is irrelevant for a non-U.S. image.

As for OTRS, if you got confirmation from the TPL and/or COTA that images for which they hold or held the copyright are considered by them to be public domain ''worldwide'' once they are public domain in Canada (the worldwide aspect is the key), then I would give you a massive hug!!! Similar cofirmation was obtained from the U.K. copyright office for British images subject to the 50-year crown copyright rule in the U.K. It would be wonderful if we could get something similar for Toronto images. Contact me if you wish to discuss.[[User:Skeezix1000|Skeezix1000]] ([[User talk:Skeezix1000|talk]]) 17:11, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

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