Commons:Categories for discussion/2013/03/Category:Native Americans in art by country

‎Category:Native Americans in art by country: Clarify
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Revision as of 17:41, 2 April 2013
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::'''comment''' - note this category is not about artists who are indigenous - this is about depictions in art of various groups. It was suggested that [[:Category:Native Americans in art]] (a) is too big and (b) contains groups which are not in the United States - apparently "Native Americans" only works for those in the US. We already have {{cl|Indigenous peoples of the Americas in art}}, which as you note includes *all* of the Americas (North, south, central, even Caribbean), but the question still remains - if we move the non-US from [[:Category:Native Americans in art]] to {{cl|Indigenous peoples of the Americas in art}}, that category will remain too large and could use breaking down. I don't think there is any issue with linking it to a particular country - we run into this discussion all the time - for example in Wikipedia we have [[:en:Category:Archaeological_sites_in_County_Sligo]], even though these sites were built 5000 years before County Sligo was even imagined - it is impossible to completely avoid anarchronisms! If you really have an issue with anachronism, take a look at [[:Category:People_in_art_by_country]], which is chock full of this sort of stuff.
 
::'''comment''' - note this category is not about artists who are indigenous - this is about depictions in art of various groups. It was suggested that [[:Category:Native Americans in art]] (a) is too big and (b) contains groups which are not in the United States - apparently "Native Americans" only works for those in the US. We already have {{cl|Indigenous peoples of the Americas in art}}, which as you note includes *all* of the Americas (North, south, central, even Caribbean), but the question still remains - if we move the non-US from [[:Category:Native Americans in art]] to {{cl|Indigenous peoples of the Americas in art}}, that category will remain too large and could use breaking down. I don't think there is any issue with linking it to a particular country - we run into this discussion all the time - for example in Wikipedia we have [[:en:Category:Archaeological_sites_in_County_Sligo]], even though these sites were built 5000 years before County Sligo was even imagined - it is impossible to completely avoid anarchronisms! If you really have an issue with anachronism, take a look at [[:Category:People_in_art_by_country]], which is chock full of this sort of stuff.
 
::IMHO, the best solution is to find something that is practical, and division by current country boundary is widely used across categories in all of wikipedia and commons. If you look at the current depictions, many of them already say "brazilian indians" or "indians in peru" or other such notions, so it won't be hard to break these down (and we already have {{cl|Indigenous_peoples_of_Brazil_in_art}} and {{cl|Indigenous peoples of Canada in art}} - others could be added. Yes you're right, some tribes cross current borders - of course they do, it would be ridiculous to think otherwise... but you can either divide by the current nation-state boundaries, or the much larger geographical ones (e.g. North America, Central America, South America), or come up with other subdivisions and then try to figure it out - I think in the end, for the average user, it will be easier to understand "here is an image of a person who (probably) lived in what is now called Canada".--[[User:Obiwankenobi|Obi-Wan Kenobi]] ([[User talk:Obiwankenobi|talk]]) 17:35, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 
::IMHO, the best solution is to find something that is practical, and division by current country boundary is widely used across categories in all of wikipedia and commons. If you look at the current depictions, many of them already say "brazilian indians" or "indians in peru" or other such notions, so it won't be hard to break these down (and we already have {{cl|Indigenous_peoples_of_Brazil_in_art}} and {{cl|Indigenous peoples of Canada in art}} - others could be added. Yes you're right, some tribes cross current borders - of course they do, it would be ridiculous to think otherwise... but you can either divide by the current nation-state boundaries, or the much larger geographical ones (e.g. North America, Central America, South America), or come up with other subdivisions and then try to figure it out - I think in the end, for the average user, it will be easier to understand "here is an image of a person who (probably) lived in what is now called Canada".--[[User:Obiwankenobi|Obi-Wan Kenobi]] ([[User talk:Obiwankenobi|talk]]) 17:35, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 
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:::Thanks for the clarification, but the point still holds; if the "Native Americans" category is too big, then breaking down by indigenous ethnicity (Blackfeet, Crow, Sioux, Ojibwa or whatever) is the most appropriate method and should not be particularly difficult, whether you are talking art or artist. For example, "Blackfeet people in art" would be fine. Where it is a generic "Indian" then even breaking down into cultural groups is usually possible, i.e. "Northeast Woodlands", "Plains Indians" etc...at least for historic images. [[User:Montanabw|Montanabw]] ([[User talk:Montanabw|talk]]) 17:41, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

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